Derek Fowldes very kindly talks George Murphy about life, the universe and being Jim Hacker's under secretary.
What made you want to become an actor?
Well I wasn't one of those people who said, “I want to become an actor” when I was about five. I was a secondary modern boy, left school at 15 and went into the factories as an apprentice printer, but my hobby at school was drama. I always thought you had to be very posh or very rich to become an actor, so it was never anything more then a fantasy really. But when I was in Malta doing my national service in the navy, I met a lieutenant commander that I did three plays with. He took me under his wing and said, “You've really got to think about your career and your life. I think you should go to RADA.” (The Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts) Which I thought was an electric light company! He wrote to RADA, coached me and when my service finished I won a scholarship and grant.
So what was your first acting job?
I left drama school in 1960 and started a play that I thought would go in to the West End on April the 2nd. So this is my 40th year, and they haven't found me out yet! (But I think there just beginning to.) After a year I got my first television which was an episode of armchair theatre, which was broadcast live. I played the young son. Gerald Glassier who went on to produce Trainer, Colditz and all those epics for the BBC directed it.
How did you get the job working with Basil Brush?
I would just like to point out that I was an actor first. Everyone thinks I began my career with that bloody puppet. No, I love him. I've just had a studio built in my garden and Basil Brush is the weather vain! In 1969 my agent said “Do you want to go down to the BBC and work with a puppet” and I said “What are you talking about, I'm a classically trained actor” Anyway, I went down there, met Basil and I stayed with him for 5 years. When we were rehearsing we used to do two versions, one for the crew, which was quite filthy and the proper show when the kids came in. I think that was the reason the adults loved the show, because any chance for a double entendre and we were there. The show went on for another 5 years with Mr. Roy, Mr. Howard, My Billy and all types of strange people, but I like to think the vintage years were with Mr. Derek.
How did you get the part of Bernard Wooley?
Johnny Lynn, (who co-wrote the show with Tony Jay) and I shared an agent. He was in the office talking about how they got Paul Edington and were hoping to get Nigel Hawthorne and when they mentioned the part of Bernard, my agent said what about Derek? So a while later when I heard they were going to send me a script for ‘Yes Minister', I thought it was going to be a religious program, then I read it and realized it was something very special. In the seven years we did the show, none of us had a cross word and I miss Paul very much to this day. I still keep in touch with Nigel the superstar, and now he's been knighted! Good grief.
The biggest appeal of the show for me is that it probably had the best acting talent in British sit-com history!
Well George, you're an actor, you know you begin with the script, you end with the script and if you're a good actor you can just stand there and say the lines. I think if they had chosen another trio, it still would have worked. But I agree. I admired Nigel and Paul very much and considered myself very lucky to stand between the two of them, and as dear Paul used to say “Your quite right Derek, you are very lucky”.
When did you know the show was a success?
Well it started on BBC 2 and I think it was a bit of a Cult program in a way. It was a slow burner because people at that time weren't used to listening to television, they were just used to watching it, and you had to listen to Yes Minister and let it wash over you. But word of mouth got out and I think by series 2 it went on to BBC 1. They started talking about it in parliament, Maggie Thatcher said it was her favourite program and we started to get a lot of publicity. After three years the writers didn't feel they could do any more and keep the standard up, but the BBC were desperate for more and that's when they changed tack and made him Prime Minister for another 2 seasons after which time they thought it was time to quit.
How in the name of God did you remember all the lines in Yes Minister/ Prime Minister ?
George, You should know better then asking me that. Its a standard question that anyone out of the business always asks.
Forgive me. It's just as an actor, it seems inconceivable to learn all those speeches, rehearse and shoot an entire episode in a standard BBC sit-com week.
Well I find learning lines very easy, but I find remembering them extremely difficult. So you must remember that one. No I was like yourself and extremely bad at remembering lines until Nigel showed me a technique. With Yes Minister we were lucky enough to have the scripts 6 months ahead, so what Nigel started to do (which I copied) was to take the long speeches out of the script and learn them like a soliloquy. So the trick is to learn ahead and Nigel and myself still work in this way. The trouble is television is so rushed these days that it is not possible any more and I think for the most part it shows.
What was your favourite episode of Yes Minister/ Prime Minister ?
Well there are two that really stick out. One was called ‘The Whisky Priest' in which we went to Arabia and we took our booze with us and I had to keep coming into the tent and tell Paul that there was a Mr. Johnny Walker's on the phone, or a Smirnoff wants to talk to you, so we could have a drink, and we all got more and more pissed. And the other was called ‘The Key', which was the one where we locked Nigel out of number 10. I was always getting the giggles. Some scenes were so funny that I got told off a lot for laughing.
Did any politician ever think you were the real thing ?
Oh all the time. Once the three of us were in the visitors gallery, watching Prime Ministers question time and we used to get handed notes. In the House of Commons. They have microphones planted in the back of the seats and when the back benches lean back and you think there sleeping, they are actually being sent messages by there private secretary's or vice versa. I remember once we were at a reception at number 10 and a chap came up to me and said “I'm you” so I said “Oh really, your better looking then me” and he said “ No, I'm Bernard and there are 99 of us, I mean he Bernard and that chaps Bernard over there.” Because all the Private secretary's in those days were known as “Bernard's”
How longs Heartbeat been going on for now ?
8 years. I remember us all driving down their, Nick Berry and I thought, this would be nice for six months, but it just caught on. A lot of people have left the show now, but it doesn't seem to affect the ratings. Were still getting 14.5 million, which is amazing.
I've got to say, I don't think I've ever seen the show.
I don't blame you mate, but it is good fun.
Do you have any ambitions as an actor ?
Each year I nearly leave Heartbeat. I nearly left after season two and then I almost went with Nick, and they keep saying “No Derek, we don't want to lose you” and when you're in your sixties, you think this is rather nice. So Ill be doing another year of Heartbeat and after that, who knows, I guess Ill have to re-invent myself. But I haven't been on the stage in 10 years and would like to go back at some stage and see if I can still walk and talk and not have a nervous breakdown. But also on television I have never had my own show like John Thaw or David Jason and I think that would be nice.
What do you think of modern Television ?
Just recently I have seen some good drama which is wonderful because its very far and few between. We've been taken over by gardens and doc-u-soap recently, and its nice when you get something that you have to record like Clocking Off, which has a wonderful cast. Gormangast had some excellent performances but I think I was the only person watching that. Its also good to see mates on telly being wonderful, but most of the time crap! But no I don't mean that.
What would you be doing now if you weren't an actor ?
At 63 ? Well if I stayed as a printer I would have been made redundant about 25 years ago. I would have married the girl next door, all my six children would have grown up and I would have an extremely large belly I reckon. The thing about being non educated in a secondary modern system in my day was that if you failed your 11 plus you came out of school at 15 just knowing how to read and write, and that's what happened to me and so many others of my age. So I consider myself extremely lucky to have done national service, to have Bruce the lieutenant commander that was a great support to me who sadly died last year at nearly 80. I was one of the lucky ones because If I hadn't met him and I hadn't become an actor I would not have had the life I had and would properly not be here now.
George, I'll give you three pieces of acting advice.
Remember that your career is a marathon, not a sprint, Do you like that one? Here's another on for you – Remember the journey is always more exciting then arriving and Its luck that gets you there and talent that keeps you there
